On Monday, C. Peter Wagner discussed
Texas Governor Rick Perry's ties to the New Apostolic Reformation
(NAR), a Christian movement which played a prominent role in his
August prayer rally, The Response.
an interview with Fresh Air host Terry Gross, Wagner
explained that NAR seeks to take dominion over politics, business and
culture in preparation for the end times and Jesus' return, and that
the group played a prominent role in Perry's rally.
“Alice Patterson, who is an apostle
in the movement, and she was onstage with Rick Perry when he spoke,
and she helped mobilize supporters for the rally. … Is rick Perry's
connection to the apostles an indication that he approves of your
work, or is your endorsement of him an indication that you endorse
him as well as a presidential candidate?” Gross asked.
“I know Alice well,” Wagner
answered. “And I was surprised that so many of the platform
participants would fit under the New Apostolic Reformation template.”
“[H]ow do you interpret it, that the
rally was organized in part by people affiliated with the New
Apostolic Reformation and that, you know, several of them were
present on stage with him, including standing next to him when he
“My suspicion is that when Rick Perry
arrived at The Response, he had never heard of the New Apostolic
Reformation,” Wagner said, but later added that he saw Perry's
involvement as “ a significant step forward.”
Wagner, the author of Dominion! How
Kingdom Action Can Change the World, also discussed his
involvement in the International Society of Deliverance Ministers, a
group of Christian ministers who cast demons out of people. He and
his wife Doris founded the group.
“[T]hat's been her ministry,”
Wagner said. “And so I've been very, very close to that for
When Gross asked if openly gay elected
officials were possessed by demons, Wagner answered that that wasn't
necessarily the case, but added that being gay is not “the will of
“Would it be fair to say that you see
homosexuality as a satanic expression?” Gross asked.
“I do not think homosexuality is the
will of God,” Wagner said. “I don't think it's God's plan A.”
(The audio is embedded in the right panel of this page.)